Episode Discussions



Episode 19 - "Birthday Boy"

Chatters: Bren86 and Kyle, Oct 15, 1998

BREN86: Hey!
KYLE: Hey! Funny meeting you here.
BREN86: Sorry I was late, I was re-watching b-day boy. Did you get a chance to watch it or should we chat about something else?
KYLE: My copy is a Nicked at Nite...I watched it.
BREN86: Mine is too. I was going to ask you, does NAN regularly cut off the teaser that is supposed to come on b4 the title sequence?
KYLE: Not all eps have them of course, but my "experience" is that Nick nicks them.
BREN86: Oh. Just wanted to make sure I didn't miss a whole lot.
KYLE: They have incredibly long commercial breaks.
BREN86: I kinda like the fact that bday boy excludes Winnie, it's really one of the best "family" or "Kevin-Paul" eps there is.
KYLE: A good Kev-Paul ep for sure.
BREN86: And it goes great with "Carnal Knowledge" way down the line. Especially with Wayne's comments that you're not a man until you lose your virginity.
KYLE: Very similar in the set-up. "With another person" of course :-)
BREN86: I like the way that scenes are contrasted with one another in this ep - i.e. old film footage of the young boys with a cut into Wayne saying "What the hell is a bar mitvah?" And then later a happy birthday party turned into "the graduate"
KYLE: You know, I remember getting many of the same presents as Kevin did. Turtleneck, bathrobe, wallet and thesaurus. :-(
BREN86: LOL. I think everyone has at least one birthday or Christmas where that has happened.
KYLE: One? I had about 5 like that!
BREN86: Now that I think about it, this ep has many influences from the first part of "The Graduate" - lousy presents, a party he wishes he wasn't at, slow Simon and Garfunkel music playing as he sulks on his bed...
KYLE: I'm a bit vague on some of it.
BREN86: Just no Mrs. Robinson, unless you count "slow-dancing with Paul's aunt Selma" :-)
KYLE: Right. If you remember the newspaper Jack was looking at, on the front was "Coberly Ford". An actual SoCal place...
BREN86: Wow, another location thing. Sorta pinpoints things. I forget your comments, is "Birthday Boy" an episode you liked especially?
KYLE: Well, the ending technique was really good, and I like that part, plus the "car" stuff. And how it was a mark of a man to work on them.
BREN86: Although it's odd that Kevin writes his age before his street or city on his wallet ID card.
KYLE: Yeah, I thought about that, although he was more concerned with his age than address.
BREN86: I've never heard of many ppl that keep an extra fan belt in the toolbox, though. LOL.
KYLE: Me either. Usually it's in the car. Unless that is the toolbox from the car, and not his "around the house" box.
BREN86: Didn't this ep have a bug in that March 18 didn't fall on a Saturday the year the ep takes place or something about their birthdays?
KYLE: That is true. The date doesn't fit.
BREN86: Another quote I liked: Debbie saying, "my family is SO weird", after the family recites "don't look a gift chicken in the mouth"
KYLE: Yep. She is funny.
BREN86: Did you find it a little extravagant that Paul was getting $1,000 in the late 60's? That was half the price of the '66 car Jack was looking at.
KYLE: Well, it's only $10 per person on average. I think some guys were lucky that way. Because it is a big deal.
BREN86: Whew, if only I knew that at age 8. I coulda converted! j/k
KYLE: Well, it's probably not too late, though you're probably out the bucks.
BREN86: The other thing, what is the deal about Jack bringing the car home? Does he get a new Impala?
KYLE: It was just being repaired, I think, then he decided to do it himself.
BREN86: They seem to be exciting about taking a ride in it, though in later eps they have a station wagon. The Impala wasn't the later car was it? I mean, when Norma mentions it during Kevin's party and narrator makes a crack about it.
KYLE: I'll have to re-watch that. I thought the car in "The Family Car" was a big Impala or something.
BREN86: I am too young to know if the Impala was a station wagon. Even still, it sorta catches my eye that they would go for a ride for his birthday in their old car. Maybe that was their idea of fun, I suppose.
KYLE: Nope. It's a sedan. The '64 Impala is THE classic low-rider car.
BREN86: The young Kevin and Paul in this ep was a great job of casting compared to other fake Kevins and Pauls they use in other eps I thought.
KYLE: I know. "Paul" was really close.
BREN86: Maybe I am confused with the Falcon that Jack almost bought in "The Family Car".
KYLE: Well, the Falcon was a small sedan, versus the Impala (the '64 being the biggest of them. The car was in the shop for a new fuel-pump...Jack wanted to drive everyone around in it for Kevin's party :-)
BREN86: Then I'm lost. :-) Wayne's friend Steve strikes me as an older version of Craig Hobson, it's too bad he doesn't appear in many later eps. Which reminds me, "let's get Kevin a new alternator for his birthday" LOL.
KYLE: Do we really need 2 Hobsons?
BREN86: No, but I just meant Steve would have been a great complement to eps when Wart was in Vietnam.
KYLE: Karen's poem "Pain of Youth" was quite lovely. "Fall...fall to the Earth...and break, writhing in pain..." :-)
BREN86: There's a song a friend of mine sings on birthdays that the narrator could've said to good use in this ep - "poverty and despair/ people dying everywhere/ on your birthday / happy birthday" LOL.
KYLE: We do get much of the Arnold family tree revealed, although a bit vaguely :-)
BREN86: Yeah, I enjoy Kevin's face when Jack tells him Pa Arnold came from Newark. :-) In my opinion, young Kevin's (or young Fred's) mannerisms were a lot more expressive in first few seasons. In high school, he always looks stunned or upset.
KYLE: Yes, they seem more animated in the earlier episodes.
BREN86: Do you like the song "Bookends Theme"? I notice you used part of it on your page.
KYLE: It's my favorite off the greatest hits CD, as it turns out. I didn't actually remember how it really went. I didn't get this episode taped till a couple months ago. But I read the lyrics when I was hunting them all down. I knew it was what I wanted to accompany the picture of the album with Kev Winnie pix
BREN86: I have the CBS Greatest Hits album, is that the one you have?
KYLE: I have Simon & Garfunkel's GH, on Columbia. It only has "Bookends", not "Bookends Theme".
BREN86: It's a great use of the song, though I think "Bookends Theme" would have been nicer with one more verse. I appreciated the song all the more so when I looked up the word confidences and found out what simon meant by it. I sorta took that he meant "a time of secrets" rather than a time of assurances. Which meaning do you hold to?
KYLE: Well, definitely not a time of "assurance". Sense 1. is a "firm belief, trust, reliance."
BREN86: Well, I meant assurance as a syn. for the way we use confidence most often, as a character trait.
KYLE: It is not the same as "confident". More like "a relationship as confidant" (take me into your confidences).
BREN86: OK, that's something even better than what I previously had then!
KYLE: Confidant = A close, trusted friend, to whom one confides intimate matters or secrets.
BREN86: Well then it fits the page perfectly!
KYLE: That is the way I think it is meant.
BREN86: Well, I think we should close if it's alright with you. any final comments? :-)
KYLE: The technique used at the end, with the series of "stills", then fading to a B&W picture was very good. It was sort of done in other eps, too, but this was the best one, I think.
BREN86: OK, I gotta say the scene with Kevin helping his dad with the car is beautiful, and certainly it's easy to identify with Kevin's disappointment in this ep.
KYLE: Yep. I added that scene (and some other bits) to my "Family Car" character. Cars are people too!
BREN86: Haha! Ciao!
KYLE: OK :-)

See Episode 19 Transcript



Episode 44 - "Cocoa and Sympathy"
By Ringo, Aug 8, 2004

My favourite funny scene would have to be from the highly-underrated #44 "Cocoa and Sympathy". [This was the one that followed the Emmy-winning "Goodbye" episode just when The Wonder Years was at its peak.]

I thought that whole episode was exceptionally well-written and brilliantly executed - not to mention side-splittingly funny! And in my mind it's Paul Pfeiffer's best performance to date. Who could forget the scene where the ever cantankerous and rugged Jack Arnold is holding the tray of pizza, replete with oven mitts on his hands, watching helplessly at the doorstep while geeky Paul squires away with his wife?

Back to the subject at hand... I would say THE most brilliantly funny two-minute scene in The Wonder Years would have to be about midway through the same episode, when the camera cuts to a scene with 8th grade girls in red skirts playing field hockey on the school grounds to the tune of "Did You Ever Have To Make Up Your Mind". Kevin, Paul, Craig Hobson, Randy Mitchell and Doug Porter are seated in the bleachers, conducting their own poll rating the girls at Kennedy Junior High, in retaliation towards Lisa's infamous "Berlini Poll" ranking the guys.

The interplay between Kevin, Paul, Hobson, Randy and Doug Porter is superb and amazingly executed...The dialogue is natural, just as typical 8th grade boys sitting in the bleachers of a schoolyard would act. The music, the camerawork, the acting, the facial expressions and vocal intonations of the boys in that scene is second to none! [I love that grin on Doug Porter's face when he says "She shaves her legs, too!".] The writer really does a good job of highlighting the humour - and innocence - in everyday 13-year old conversations between friends. The direction is perfect, and that scene simply cracks me up everytime I see it!

See Episode 44 Transcript



Episode 47 - "Growing Up"
Chatters: Kyle and Bren86
Nov 15, 1998

BREN86: Well, ya wanna talk about "Growing Up"?
KYLE: Sure! Like I mentioned, it could be the single episode to represent the entire series.
BREN86: Yeah, I looked back at the opening and yep, it includes all the characters at that time.
KYLE: It had all the family members, plus some Winnie and friends.
BREN86: I like the moment when they all turn around when Marcia looks up at them at the pool.
KYLE: Right - seeing with "new eyes" :-) Wow!
BREN86: The only thing that bothers me is how does Wayne know they were looking at her? He always seems to know what Kevin's been up to, without showing how he knew it. Just a pet peeve I guess. :-)
KYLE: Don't know that one. He seems to have Kevie under surveillance frequently...They had an actual "moment" at the picnic though, after Angela dumped Wayne. Not many of those in the series....
BREN86: Yeah. It was set up well by the opening scene, with Kevin relating how everyone was changing. No, the moment sorta mirrors the later, more personal moment in "Triangle" hehe.
KYLE: Well, both the opening and ending was notable for the superimposition of the home movie, with the present. Very effective I think. BTW, Ken Stephensen (linked on my page) has a whole philosophical essay on the home-movies in general...
BREN86: Yeah, they always make the home movies look so real, even though you know they shot it the same week. The movie of past picnics fading into the same shot with older actors at the picnic table is especially eye-catching.
KYLE: Kevin still had his stumblings with women, too, as evidenced by falling out of the boat in embarrassment.
BREN86: You think he did his own stunt there? Fred, I mean.
KYLE: Yeah. Maybe. It's only water...At first I thought it was similar to The Graduate pool scene :-)
BREN86: He did a good job of flailing about. :-) What do you make of the recurring shots of Kevin holding a beer in his hands?
KYLE: Getting the beer from the bucket?
BREN86: That's sort of a growing up symbolism, you think?
KYLE: Yeah. It was kinda presented that way. Cuz Jack told him to stick to ginger ale. And later, hating being called "sonny".
BREN86: Yeah, I think maybe this was one of the first eps where Jack starts to realize Kevin's growing up in some ways. Certainly he realized Kevin could hit a baseball!
KYLE: Well, Kevin challenged him (to pitch better), which is part of growing up.
BREN86: I am a little confused about time issues in this ep: it seems to me that they would have left before it became so dark, seeing as they came at noon.
KYLE: Well, they stuck around for the campfire (and the great narration) about forgiving themselves for growing up.
BREN86: Yeah, I suppose they picked a good time for the narration, after the sun had set and they were singing. So what are your thoughts on the narration? I know you had cited it as sorta theme for the series.
KYLE: It was kinda weird that the voices we hear are not from the scene, though.
BREN86: The voices in the background?
KYLE: Didn't it seem the voices were from someone else?
BREN86: I noticed the lip-sync was off. I guess I wasn't paying full attention. Wayne singing (snicker snicker) :-)
KYLE: As far as the "final" narration, Jack tells Kevin "never get old". Kev didn't know if he meant Jack or Kevin, but "it didn't really matter." "Growing up is never easy. You hold on to things that were. You wonder what's to come. But that night, I think we knew it was time to let go of what had been, and look ahead to what would be. Other days. New days. Days to come. The thing is, we didn't have to hate each other for getting older. We just had to forgive ourselves...for growing up." I think that was a really good one :-)
BREN86: True. They only had two episodes for "summer" that season. a little odd. They go from "moving" at school's end to "growing up" at school's start.
KYLE: Yep...but they had a few other summer eps before (and after). It is only 1/4 of the year...
BREN86: What other scenes do you like in this ep?
KYLE: When this episode was sort of fuzzy in my mind, the thing I remembered best was the last 5 seconds, where the camera zooms in quickly on the disappearing car, shifts focus, then shoots the asphalt. This is really the sign of an amateur cameraman. :-) But perfect, because how many families have a pro?
BREN86: I think I missed that. I'll have to go back and see. They combined a lot of important events in this ep.
KYLE: Although not a member of the family, we treat the phantom photographer as one :-) And this was his "best" effort, if you follow...I think that little focus-shift/shoot the asphalt is one of the best "little things" of the series. Watch it again... :-)
BREN86: OK, lemme go back, who are we to suppose is the camera operator? I didn't catch what you said.
KYLE: That has never been determined - who it is. A phantom photog, I guess.
BREN86: Maybe a neighbor. I like the look on Jack's face when Karen reads her classes.
KYLE: "I'm not payin' for that." :-)
BREN86: Do we ever find out where karen goes to school? Maybe "State" like Norma does but then Karen lived a bit away from town.
KYLE: I don't think it was ever mentioned, although Norma goes to River Community College. (Kyle's 10/03 correction: she applied at River Community College, but graduated from Freemont Community College.)
BREN86: Oh, Jack was "State".
KYLE: Kevin told Linda he went to State, in Ep 96 Scenes from a Wedding. We should be able to read Dan's/Jack's sweatshirt :-) River Community College was from Ep 63 "When Worlds Collide" (a 1951 sci-fi movie, btw :-)
BREN86: Also a Seinfeld episode, I think it's a recurring conflict in life. :-)
KYLE: Yes. A continuing one, I think.
BREN86: Jack was just a manager, right. It seems odd that Detweiler would go from being manager (presumedly since Jack knew him well) to VP overnite.
KYLE: Well, I guess they both were managers. I remember from Ep 3 that Jack had 3 major screwups that month...so maybe he wasn't the best. Though Harry was no rocket scientist, either.
BREN86: True, plus I'm being more analytical than the writers intended. "You know you're bored when you find yourself rooting for which hot dog will explode first" :-)
KYLE: Well, it also ties in to Jack's apology to Kevin, and Kevin's forgiveness - "I guess Dad wore long pants, too." Which of course ties into the narration. "Forever Young" has a last verse not played in the ep, btw.
BREN86: Well of course, it was too long a song. It's funny how they keep using it throughout the series, though I guess that's intentional.
KYLE: Well, it has the right lyrics and tone..."Both Sides, Now" was in a few, as were others. I'm partial to The Circle Game, myself :-)
BREN86: I like "In My Life" :) Well, you ready to do "final thoughts" ?
KYLE: Yep. It's a great ep overall, and captures the general idea of growing up. Great narration, song and the camera thing at the end. :-) Thumbs up - way up!
BREN86: I like the comic elements at the beginning of the ep ("wanna go to the movies?") and of course bonding between Kev and Jack. In my top 10 list. :-)
KYLE: For sure.:-)

See Episode 47 Transcript



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08/15/04 14:45